Seeking Critique﻿

Seeking Critique

10/31/2016

“Remember: when people tell you something’s wrong or doesn’t work for them, they are almost always right. When they tell you exactly what they think is wrong and how to fix it, they are almost always wrong.” – Neil Gaiman

Until recent months I’ve resisted the idea of a structured critique group. Maybe resistance occurs when I confuse taking criticism with doing whatever the critic suggests. Maybe it occurs when my defenses go up. Participation in a couple of critique groups lately is improving my writing and changing my attitude.

In my current exploration of platitudes (stay present, never give up, write what you know), the one that jumps out for me today is, “Believe in yourself.” Does this mean to ignore the critics, confident that your work is already the best you can make it? Or does it mean to stay open to critique, confident that you can always make your work better? With a reasonable degree of self-belief, you can stay vulnerable without being damaged. You can hear feedback while continuing to own your life and work.

Writing is communication. Between the extremes of keeping a personal journal (with no readers) and writing to formula (revealing nothing of the writer), writing requires that both writer and reader be present. As Neil Gaiman suggests, writers need both to hear what isn’t working for a reader and to retain personal responsibility for deciding what to do about it.

10 Comments

Lisa Imhoff

11/1/2016 09:35:03 am

Sarah, thank you so much for again respecting your reader! By extension, it's also a dilemma for a careful reader when we are troubled by something in someone else's writing, when we as reader are involved with the writing because we're a co-worker on a project as I am, or via a critique group of sorts, which I am also in another compartment of my life. As a creative, sometimes we want to put something in, so we do, but then sometimes we aren't sure how to REALLY carry that off, so we don't complete the polishing off of that new story line or product to help it flow/work, and choose instead to ignore it for the time being and ... revisit it later. But we may NOT revisit it, until some kind observer (the reader or client) points it out as unfinished or unclear. Another time it comes up for me is when the creative (my client and I) is just too close to the product to realize that most of the observers (readers, buyers) lack the background or back story for the product (novel, article, catalog) to be really coherent or complete in its intention. Love Gaiman's quote which I'll print and tape to my monitor.

Do you think we can help the people we've invited to critique our work by asking them questions to start the conversation?

Sarah link

11/1/2016 02:11:53 pm

Lisa, very well put. It's great if a reader points out something I'd intended to revisit but forgot. For the reader side, or in certain kinds of editorial work, there's a big gray area between right/wrong and matters of taste. (And even within some allegedly right/wrong areas. Yes, real writers do use sentence fragments or start sentences with conjunctions, to good effect.) I find it challenging to edit others' work that isn't wrong but isn't the way I would have said it.

What kinds of questions would you suggest we ask our beta readers to start the conversation? I do think it's very helpful to specify the kind and degree of feedback we're looking for - plot holes vs. comma splices. Writing collaboratively is always a challenge unless the participants are well aligned and are clear about their process.

11/1/2016 03:11:25 pm

Well, Sarah, the kind of questions you might ask are a little different than the questions I generally ask. I'm mainly concerned with the visual appeal and how I can direct the reader/buyer to the best conclusion (this is the right or wrong product for your needs). But in general, beyond "right/wrong," and "matters of taste," we're all trying to "sell" something, right? To convince the viewer/reader that our story is valid (product is just what they need), worth the investment of time to read and understand (buy the product or renew the subscription to my client's newsletter).

But in a way you could ask similar questions.
• Is this the most useful view of the product (you could ask is this a compelling angle to use to explore this topic). Do we need additional views to confuse or enlighten.
• Does the timeline or subject matter jump around, and if so is this a problem or is there a good reason to leave it so because there is increased tension or excitement using this technique.
• Have we adequately introduced the reader to the character or topic at hand without insulting the reader with not enough or too much information (is the material appropriate for the level of the reader/buyer).
• Have we been properly transparent where we should be transparent so as to not obviously influence the reader/buyer? (Soft sell... does it work or not in this case?)

I'm all for using our own style to present the story (starting sentences with conjunctions), but are we able to carry it off? Just read a novel for book discussion, Whiskey and Charlie by Annabelle Smith, and our conclusion is that the book sometimes read like a medical manual and we didn't have enough of an emotional response to what should be a very emotional topic, because the author admittedly had no experience with coma, she had only read articles about it to write the book. So the book was believable and all but not gripping of our emotions, which of course a person WANTS in a novel. We forgave her because it's like her fist or second book. She'll get better. :) But, she wasn't able to really do the story justice. The timeline did jump around, which was good because it DID generate some interest. And we wondered if with more viewpoints we might have become more engaged with the story.

11/1/2016 03:23:57 pm

PS. Yes, "helpful to specify the kind and degree of feedback we're looking for," and that boils down to intention. What is our intention for doing the writing, and what is our intention for asking for input on said writing. Someone may say, All those commas interfered with the flow or rhythm. Then, if you trust the sophistication of the reader, you would say, Oh, I didn't INTEND that, or Oh, that's just what I INTENDED all those commas to do! So a good critiquer can point out unintended consequences of something you may not have really been looking for comments about. So don't always discard comments on your periodic non-standard punctuation.

11/1/2016 05:36:32 pm

I love your suggested questions. And the idea that any writing is trying to sell something. Any artistic product, perhaps. Is a visual artist (when not working on a commercial project) equally trying to sell something? Maybe it comes back again to intention.

11/1/2016 06:16:40 pm

Yes, in the sense that to sell means to promote or persuade, yes, any artist (creative) is trying to do that. They may not always know what they are trying to promote, I think, and the viewer/reader can perceive something entirely different than what was intended, depending on what they bring to the table.

I watched a MOST interesting show on University Place (WPT) last night on horror movies. One might think that horror movies just have one purpose — to scare or horrify. But often the cinematography is really stunning and artistic and there is a lot more going on in terms of deeper meaning. So, I think that is in the back of my mind as I respond to this thread, too. Specifically, the movies referred to that struck me, which I was familiar with, were Psycho, The Birds, The Night of the Living Dead (eeeeew!) and Halloween (and one or two I did not know). The professor who teaches a class at UW on the topic often asks his students deeper questions about why this is "gross" or whatever, or why they are laughing at the special effects in a 1927 horror movie, and eventually the real reason is identified, and so everyone realizes there was more of an agenda on the writer/producer's mind than to horrify or shock or gross out the audience. I found it interesting, as a creative who does want to get some response from my work, be it a commercial catalog (inform the customer) or a piece of writing on family history (inform a rellie and make them love or at least respect the ancestor).

There are many ways to influence our readers/viewers/buyers. We should hone our favorite techniques. I'm working with a well-known local writer right now on a project, and his chatty friendly meandering style kind of impedes understanding the story at times, so I told him the couple of paragraphs that troubled me and why (I hope Neil Gaiman would have been pleased with me), suggested adding a tiny bit of information here or there, in his style of course (I didn't GIVE him the words to use!). The revisions he came back with were perfect. That's why I also said earlier that we often don't go back and review every word, or every square inch of a design, and we should. Because we all know what something looks like when the creative has done that., as opposed to when they haven't. Or, of course, when they've had a bit of insightful help...

11/1/2016 09:15:29 pm

I love to compare experiences of creative endeavor across different artistic media (writing, graphic arts, etc.).

I often find specific suggestions helpful even when I don't follow them. They help me understand what the reader was having trouble with. Then I can seek a third wording that addresses their concern in a way I'm happy with.

11/2/2016 09:31:04 am

I do too love to compare the creative process across media! A well-known illustrator once told me (when I was bemoaning to her that my livelihood was commercial art, as opposed to fine art) that all creatives have a client... Fine artists as well as commercial... Outside of doodling (for me) and journaling (for you and me both), that's true. I made a decision a few years later to turn my commercial art into fine art (meaning, really, to approach it differently, not simply to make it more esoteric), and it made all the difference in my approach to my projects.

Our little genealogy writing group is wonderful for providing useful critique on our writing. Each of us needs a little different help.

So, Sarah, you disagree somewhat with Neil Gaiman and do want specific suggestions to solve a problem? He seems to imply that he just wants to know that something's wrong/not working, but not suggestions on how to fix it. Of course that comment by him is just a little quip and I would think almost anyone (except maybe Stephen King) tolerates criticism from different sources differently.

11/2/2016 10:21:29 am

"All creatives have a client." I love it!

I interpret Neil Gaiman a little differently. I agree with him that "they are almost always wrong" but don't take that to mean he objects to their suggestions, just that he probably won't follow them.

11/2/2016 11:01:13 am

"I agree with him that "they are almost always wrong" but don't take that to mean he objects to their suggestions, just that he probably won't follow them."

Ahhh ha. Yes. I get that. The problem should not be fixed in the way they suggest, but perhaps in his own way it should, indeed, be fixed.